"Hey, Heather!"
The podcast where I attempt to interview as many of the world’s Heathers and their stories as humanly possible!
"Hey, Heather!"
Heather Thorkelson
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She's a Canadian dual entrepreneur and author living in rural Sweden. She's been traveling since she was in the womb (literally). Lover of dogs, cheese, cold places, and mossy forests.
Website: heatherthorkelson.com
IG: @heatherthorkelson
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Twin Tracks Expeditions
*Pre-order the Kindle version of her new book from Amazon here: http://bit.ly/noplanbbook
I knew a few Heather's now I know a lot of others let's get to know,
Speaker 2Welcome to the
Speaker 1Hey Heather podcast , right ? Attempt to interview and get to know as many of the world's Heathers and our stories as humanly possible. I'm your host, Heather Edwards. Today's. Heather comes to us from Sweden. She's a business coach, business owner, author, and fellow cheese lover. Please. Welcome to the show. Heather Wilson.
Speaker 2Hello? Hey Heather, how are things? Good. Pretty good. It's pretty busy right now. I actually spent most of my day uploading my ebook and my paperback files to Amazon to publish my first book. So that's really exciting. Um, that, is it
Speaker 1Exciting? Yeah. That's coming out when October 12th ,
Speaker 2October 20th. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a lot of like behind the scenes work right now, but it's been good. It's been good. I'm ready for a stiff drink in the weekend.
Speaker 1Yeah. Same here.
Speaker 2Tell us more about your book. That's coming out. I want to hear all the details. Yeah. So the book is , um, it's called no plan B a handbook for incurable entrepreneurs and other rebellious souls. Love it. And , uh, yeah, it's, it's coming out on the 20th. There's going to be, there's already an ebook. That's for pre-sale. The paperback will be on the 20th and then I'm going to make an audio book version of it as well for people who like it in their ears. Um, but it's basically the idea behind it was to be the opposite of whatever other business book out there is all about. You know? Cause I find anyways , most business books are like about how to run a business, you know, how to make more money, how to like start freelancing or whatever, and, or it's completely kind of Wu mindset and mine isn't that mine's like practical, but it's really focused on , um, who you need to become in order to like ship work. That matters essentially. So that's great that you started a business, but now you're struggling. Why it's not because you don't have the information available at your fingertips for free on the internet about how to run a business. It's because of what's going on up here, you know, in your two years. And that's really what I want to address with the book or that's what I have addressed with the book. So I'm really, really happy with it. That's great. Yeah. I can't wait for that to come out. Exciting things are happening. People are launching, you know, publishing books,
Speaker 1Watching podcasts and you know , starting new websites and new business ideas. So excited
Speaker 2For everyone's yeah .
Speaker 1To come to fruition. It seems like it's all kind of happening at the same time.
Speaker 2Yeah. Well it's amazing how sort of fruitful a , um , a pandemic can be, right? When suddenly people like their regular livelihoods have changed, their, you know, requirements are different. And a lot of people were , who were, you know , working traditional jobs suddenly found themselves working from home and were like, wait a minute. This isn't so bad, actually. I mean, other people hate it, right? There's a lot of people who found themselves in the pandemic in a situation that is not, does not work for them. But , um, I certainly have heard from many, many people and gotten many new clients who are just like, wow, this new world order. This is where I want to be. And I'm done with this sort of office job kind of thing. And then a lot of creativity comes out. Oh yeah . Right.
Speaker 1Definitely. Yeah. Um, I, I think I told you before, I have been working from home in a couple of different roles for the last five or six years. So I felt like I was in training for this over the last couple of years. I love working from home. I've said years ago, I'm never going back to an office. Like I don't care what I have to do. I'm going to figure something out because this works for me. And I have so many friends and family members who are like, wow, how do you do it? I wish I could do that. And now they're in that spot. And they're like, no, I don't know how you do it. It's it's actually not, for me. It sounded great. But it's just like, well, yeah,
Speaker 2Exactly. Yeah. I think, I think there's definitely like a type of person who thrives well, I'm working in a nontraditional environment without being managed without having sort of time delimitation, you know, that you have in a normal nine to five type job, but um , other people doesn't work for them. And I, to me, it's, you know, to each his own, like when I wrote the book, I was like, this is for specifically for the people who can't do the nine to five, like I'm making no bones about it. If you love your nine to five job, put down this book and run away or give it to somebody who needs it. But like, don't , you shouldn't read it because it'll probably make you feel bad, you know, because it's really strong opinions about how unhealthy a nine to five, you know , kind of our traditional like American style nine to five working world is so. Yep . Yeah , absolutely .
Speaker 1So you're in Sweden. Yeah. So how do you think that differs from, cause you weren't, you weren't always in Sweden, right? You relocated from Canada, sort of Canada via Peru. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. I'm just trying to think, like I'm not, I'm not familiar with Sweden. Um, how, like the work life balance is over there, like even pre pandemic. Do you think more people had a traditional nine to five or is it kind of a mix ? People are working from home. They're like, what was the setup before 2020?
Speaker 2Yeah. I mean, there's definitely more people. There's more work flexibility here and there it's a much more like mental health and family friendly environment in Sweden. So , um , in many ways, it's funny that I'm sitting here in Sweden writing a book about the horrors of the like traditional nine to five. Cause I know that my Swedish family will be like, what are you talking about? Cause it's like, it exists to some degree here, but you know, it's we're we have what Americans always scream. They hate, which is socialism. We basically have a socialist society here. You know, everyone's taken care of, you get lots of paid vacation every year. The moms get, I think it's 18 months of paid maternity leave now. And great . So dads and if you're a dad and you don't take your paternity,
Speaker 1You're weird.
Speaker 2Weird. It's not, it's the norm, not the exception, you know? Um, th fathers are expected to be very involved in early childhood care and like, so it's, there's such a different approach and yeah, a lot of people working in non traditional ways, like working from home, working part time or night , I don't mean part time. I mean like partly from home part at the office, that kind of thing. So there's much more flexibility. So yeah. It's nice. And I mean the whole time that I've been living in Sweden now, which is five years as a permanent resident, I I've been working from home cause I've been working from home since 2011 since long before I came here. But , uh, but yeah, it is nice to see how healthy a society can be because their approach to work is so different. And I certainly feel like that informed a lot of what I wrote about in the book.
Speaker 1That's great. So one question I have to ask all the Heathers. Do you know why you were named Heather? Is there a story there or was it just popular during that time? Or
Speaker 2I don't know why I was named Heather. I think I've asked my mom. I think it was because it was really popular at the time. It was 1978 and when I started kindergarten, there were two other Heathers . So I was Heather T and there was a Heather R and Heather L. Gotcha. Um, so I think it was just like a really popular name at that time. However, they couldn't decide whether I should be Heather or Marie. Those were their two names that they really liked my parents. And so they named me Heather Marie. So Marie Marie is my middle name. Yeah, there you go. But then we had a surprise baby sister born and my little sister got the first name Marie, because they're like, Oh no, we can use it. Cool.
Speaker 1It was a little middle name. Isn't Heather, is it?
Speaker 2No, it's not. It's not it's Alison actually. So it's um, I think it was kind of a crap shoot actually, cause I could have been a Murray , but I ended up being a Heather and I think it actually suits me well.
Speaker 1Oh, that's good. Yeah, me too. Definitely. So when you are not publishing books and taking care of your puppies, what do you like to do for fun? What are your hobbies? Okay. This is going to sound really nerdy. I love it already. What I love to do,
Speaker 2But I love to do sort of on a local level, especially now with the pandemic is foraging. I never imagined that that would be a thing for me, but , um, you know, cause I thought for a long time that I was like it , that I was a city girl. I thought, I can't imagine not living in a downtown of a big city because I'd lived in so many big cities all over the world throughout my life. You know, I moved away from Canada the first time when I was 14. And this now in Sweden is my seventh country outside of Canada that I've lived in and I've wow. I've almost always lived in pretty big metropolis type cities, you know? So , um, before I moved to Sweden, I was living in Lima, Peru, which has a population of 11 million. The city has a population of 11 million and the country of Sweden has a population of 11 million. So can you imagine living in a city that has the same population as the country that I'm currently in now? I can't imagine. So it's really funny that I live in the sticks. Like I live in this little Hamlet with about five other houses. Everybody else is over 65 except for me and my husband. And um, we have the forest right outside my door and it is full of wild blueberries and lingonberries and, and I, every chance that I get during the season, I'm in the forest, I take my dog and we go and we like, she plays in the Moss and I pick berries and we look at birds and snails,
Speaker 1That doesn't sound nerdy. That sounds magical.
Speaker 2It's so magical. And like the Swedish forest is exactly as you would kind of envision it, it is magical. It's like Sunbeams coming through the tree tops and different colors of Moss everywhere. And it's just, Oh, it's the best. So that's my favorite thing to do these days when I'm not traveling, which I do a lot or doing business related stuff. So yeah,
Speaker 1I've been interested in foraging. Like I've had friends or acquaintances tell me that they forage, it's always piqued my interest because I'm like, Hmm . I would love to get into that. I would need to learn so much because I, you know, you gotta , you can't just pick anything. You've got to know which mushrooms you can eat and what not . And I remember going on a hike , um , when I lived in California, a part called point rays , and it was one of my most favorite hikes we hiked for about 10 miles and it's kind of through the forest and you go down and you end up at the beach is like the end. I had never seen so many different kinds of mushrooms. It was magical. I just stopped and took pictures of like every single one, all different colors and shapes. And I'm like, Holy crap, like so much Moss and Oh, it was gorgeous. So you're so lucky to have that right outside your back door.
Speaker 2Yeah. It's really nice. And it's really grounding. Like when things get super stressful to just like the other day I had, I looked at my day and I was like, I feel so much pressure right now. Like almost feel stomach sick because I just had a lot of things that felt needed to be done right away. And I looked at my dog and I knew she was getting fixed like in two days time. And I was like, no, that's it, we're running into the forest. Like screw that . So I just go to my computer and we went and spent two hours in the forest and it, I , it just reset me. And I came back and I still got done what I needed to do. But without that like sick feeling in the pit of my stomach, you know, like the forest, you know, they have this concept in Japan called forest bathing.
Speaker 1Yes. I've actually heard of that. Yes. Yeah ,
Speaker 2Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's basically what I'm doing, you know, because I come back and I feel totally refreshed and it's wonderful. And I mean, like you, I have a lot to learn. I don't know much about mushrooms still. It's, it's something that's like a big learning curve for me, but there , once you know, which mushrooms are safe to pick and which are delicious, you kind of just focus on those ones. Right. So that's what I've been doing. But like sometimes I'll see another mushroom and I'm like, Oh, is that one of those, those other kinds? And my husband for my last birthday, he bought me two mushroom identification books.
Speaker 1Yes. That sounds so great. Oh man. Anything outside is just wonderful. Just you can ground yourself in so many different ways, whether it's just stepping outside to get a breath of fresh air or this past week here at my house, I've just been opening the windows or whether it's still kind of, kind of hot on some days. And then at night it gets cold and I've been like turning the heat on turning the air on. And I'm like, no, let's just open the windows, you know? And like let the house self-regulate and it's felt like a brand new, just
Speaker 2Hearing the birds outside of the breeze coming in. That's grounding. Yeah. I was actually reading an article a couple of months ago about grounding and how just taking your shoes off and walking outside. Like when do you really get a chance to do that? Unless you're like going to the beach or, I mean, if you have kids, maybe you can just run around in the backyard a lot. But for me, I always have either flip flops on or socks or something. And just to take your shoes off and walk through the grass, or even just like on the cement, you feel that grounding. Yeah . It's such an energizing feeling or calming feeling. It can have different effects, which is so cool. It's so true. Everyone needs to get outside, get outside, everybody do something today, outside, inside , and preferably take your shoes off if it's not freezing or burning hot, or if you have a reasonable yes. Yard or something to stand on. Yeah. Yeah. You'll definitely feel better. You're also a big fan of cheese. I love cheese who doesn't love cheese. I don't trust people that don't love cheese. I don't trust people that don't love cheese either, but that's basically all the vegans, unfortunately. And maybe they love cheese actually, but they can't eat it. And this is, I'm telling you, it's the number one reason why I could never go vegan. I could easily be vegetarian if I didn't have a husband that was six foot three and like massive, you know, like working out, he definitely needs this protein and he needs his meat. But , um, yeah, I, I can't imagine living without cheese because it just makes me so damn happy. I th you know, there's studies, I've seen this online. I'm sure it's true. Maybe it's not, but I'm sure it's true. There are studies that say that like, whatever it is in cheese is, has kind of an addictive quality to it, you know? And I , it must be true because think of all the people, you know, who really love cheese and have cravings for cheese and get this like intense satisfaction when they eat their favorite cheese, it's , it's made of magic. I can't think of a cheese that I don't like. Yeah. I can't think of a cheese that I don't like either. I have some that I like more than others, but I don't like dislike any of them. No. And sometimes when I see when someone's like, try this cheese, it's really runny. And it has Ash in it and I'm kinda like, Ooh, and then I eat it. And I'm like, that's,
Speaker 3I'm like , that's delicious. What cheese is that running ?
Speaker 2Yeah. These things exist. I promise you. I've been traveling the world for 26 years. I've eaten a lot of weird cheeses. Okay. I'm actually gonna make a note of that. I'll look up , um, runny . Uh , she, she is, take your word for it. I try it. I Google I'll try anything. Once you know that stuff, the running ashy stuff, it always smells like feet, which makes you think this can't be good. Like this is going to be a bad experience in my mouth. And that's the price it's delicious. Cheese is magic. It's magic. Cheese is magic. Oh, I wish that grew in the forest next to the mushrooms and the blueberries where you could just pick slices. Oh. And like different of cheeses, like the way that you find different kinds of mushrooms. And so you'd go out into the forest and you'd be like, Oh, this cheese, I haven't seen this cheese in forever. And you'd be so excited about it. Oh man. Yes. Yeah . Oh, I can get behind that. So cool. Yeah. Same here. It's a great Heather invention right there. Forests cheese, cheese. I'm not sure we can invent that. Um, but yeah, maybe not. I'll see what I can do. I mean, I love research. Maybe there's a planet out there that has forest cheese sounds magical. Never know the universe is the multi-verse is massive. Right. We have some kind of weird cheese connection to know, like my, one of my favorite recent memories of cheese is that , um, I can't remember if I mentioned this to you before, but I am a business coach of course is my primary work, but I also have a polar expedition company. Oh, that's right. My husband and his twin brother. And we use a couple of ships up in the Arctic. We take people to see polar bears and polar bears and other things, but they, most people mostly want to see polar bears in the wild. And one of the ships that we use is a French ship. Like it's French owned. And there's a French chef, like a Fivestar French chef on board , French, French cheese, French wine. So here we are like, it's been, we didn't, it wasn't last year that I was up there. But two years ago when I was on board as like the company owner on a trip with our passengers for 10 days, and they had some of the most unbelievable French cheese, like they would have they'd set out like a platter, like a whole table just covered in cheeses and French bread. And I was like, what on earth? We're in the Arctic, we're 500 nautical miles away from the North pole so far away. We're so remote. There's no internet since like days and days ago, you know, we're literally in the middle of nowhere and I'm sitting here eating the best French cheese you can imagine. And let me tell you, I ate so much cheese on that trip that I broke. My pants literally broke . Well. I mean, it's, it was for cheese. So I broke my pants. I came back and I was fatter. That sounds, that's like a new level of magic. You're on a ship in the middle of nowhere. You're seeing polar bears and you're eating fine French cheese. I know. Yeah. And they have a hot tub on the back deck. So you can like sit in the hot tub, shut up, drink some wine, eat cheese and liquid polar bears. It's nuts. I need to come visit you either at your home or this other location up in the Arctic so we can take trips together. I think that'd be amazing. We should get all the Heathers . It's a 12 passenger vessel. Let's get 12 Heathers and go up to the Arctic together and eat French cheese. How amazing would that be? Let's do it. Yeah. We can vet them like they have to be a true cheese lover. Yeah , yeah. No fakers. Yeah. No. All right . Let's see. So you are also a coach. Tell us about your coaching business. Yeah. So I'm a business coach and I started out , um , back in 2011. I left corporate in 2010. I had a corporate job for many years and many, many jobs before that, that weren't corporate, but varying degrees of, you know, nine to five kind of work because I'd been moving around a lot. So I worked in a lot of different countries. And , um, when I left in June, 2010, the, you know , air quotes, working world, I thought, that's it like, I'm never going back. You know, like now I'm done, but I had no idea what I was going to do. So I kind of experimented around a little bit. And I decided during that, during like that kind of year afterwards , um, to take a life coaching certification, even though I'm like really practical and it sounded really woo. And I was like, Oh , but I thought it's probably a good idea to have some life coaching skills, because no matter what you're doing as an entrepreneur, you need really solid people skills and you need good like group management skills and all that kind of stuff. And good, like Intuit, intuitive, you know, whatever. So I did this like year long life coaching program. And then I, because I didn't know what I wanted to do. I just started doing that as my work, you know, I started taking on clients and stuff cause I had to start bringing in income. And that was really good. I was helping a lot of my friends, which is one of the reasons, one of the motivations behind wanting to life coach as well. But very soon after I started life coaching, I realized, well, I definitely don't want to do this long term . And a lot of people in the life coaching sphere were asking me how on earth I was getting clients so easily and how I was building this business online. And it's around the time I moved to Peru in 2012. So I was living in Toronto at the time. Um, and then I moved to Peru and all of my coaching friends in Toronto were like, what, how can you be a coach in Peru? Are you going to coach Peruvians? And I do speak Spanish, but I don't speak Spanish well enough that I feel like I could coach people. Cause it's, you know, that's kind of next level. And I was like, no, no, no, I'm not going to coach Peruvians. I'm going to coach people on the internet. Like that's what Skype is for, you know, at the time zoom wasn't so big back then. And um, they were just like, what do you mean? Cause in their minds they were, they were more of that sort of non internet minded type of people, right? They were like, no, if you're a coach, you coach people who live in your neighborhood or like in your community or whatever. And my attitude was completely the diff like the opposite. I didn't want to coach people in my community. I wanted to coach people in wherever in the world. They were right. That I could help with like my specific life experience, my skills my orientation could help with. So I moved to Peru. I was coaching all these people on the internet. My life coaching friends in Toronto were like, teach me how you do that. So I started teaching them how to market themselves online and find their ideal clients that could were , you know, were wherever they lived in the world. And that grew into a business coaching business, you know, and I just kind of practiced and whatever. And then I started running international entrepreneurial retreats. So I was bringing people down to Peru, not just coaches, but people with other types of online businesses and then taking them up to Iceland cause I'm half Icelandic and it's really fun to take people on retreats, Iceland, and it just kind of snowballed from there. And so that's been since about late 2013 since I've been actively an exclusively business coaching and um, yeah, and now it's 2020 and I wrote a book based on my experiences doing that and like building up this career on my own and then starting my polar expedition company in 2015. So I've got two very, very, very different countries , countries, companies. Um, and it's just been a really, really interesting decade. Hell yeah. That all sounds so great. Good for you. Yeah. And in polar expedition, so how did, how did you get started with that? Well, it was around, it was actually late 2013 when I , um, I was about the 18 month Mark in my company, like as a business slash life coach. And I was feeling a little bit of burnout as anyone who's listening, who's working for themselves will know like the 18 month Mark is often one of those times where we're just like, Oh , do I pull the plug or do I keep on going? You know? Um, so I was kinda struggling living in Peru. I was in a relationship that was no longer really any good. And a friend of mine that I met in the Amazon about eight years prior when I was traveling in the Amazon jungle called me up and said, Hey, do you want to do this like very short term contract on a ship in Antarctica? And I was like, yes, because it was really a good marriage of my skills and what they required for the job. And it allowed for a lot of autonomy. And I really like to work sort of more autonomously. And I had been to Antarctica once already in 2010 as a, as a guest on a, on an expedition ship. So I was like, sure, that sounds great. I'll come down for a month and do the short term contract. And I thought it'll just like be a little escape from being in front of a computer all the time, et cetera, et cetera. So I went off, I went down to do this and low and behold I met this strapping Swedish gentlemen. Um , not immediately. He was, he was a colleague teammate of mine, but after a couple of months, I was like, is that really cute guy flirting with me? Of course he was. And um, yeah. And then we just ended up dating. And by the end of that Antarctic season, I ended up taking on more contract time on the ship because I did as he was on the ship and the ship. And I didn't want to be in through at that point. And so, yeah. And by March when the season ended in Antarctica , um, I came home to Sweden with him and the rest is history too . It took us about two years for me to get residency. We got married and everything. And then finally I moved here with him . And so now we're now we're stationed in Sweden. And so that, because that was around 2013, by 2015, I needed to be in one place. I was going on ships all the time. So I could be with him cause he was dependent. His income was dependent on him being on ships. Right. And I was like, dude, this isn't going to work. Like you're always going away on ships. And like, how can we ever establish a life? You know, we need a place of our own I'm. I was like in late thirties already, he's younger than me. So he didn't feel that same level. But like I was in my late thirties, I'm like, I don't want to live in your mom's house when we're in Sweden to like get, you know, we need to get things figured out. So , um, I said to him, look, you're a polar expedition leader, your twin brother, can you imagine like straight out of that TV show Vikings, right? Your twin brother, you're both over six feet. You're big burly dudes with big red beards. Everybody knows who you are. You have an excellent reputation. Why don't you have your own company? Right. You're just working for other people, but like let's make our own company. And then we can, you're like a walking, talking like you're walking, talking to sales guys. Your, your, your, your existence is good marketing. Right. So they were like , uh , I don't know. Cause you know, they're not business dudes. And like my husband likes to chop wood to relax.
Speaker 3Okay . I'm getting a better picture.
Speaker 2Yeah . So I was like, don't worry about it. I'll do the back end business stuff. That's the stuff I love. And you can just be the outbound marketing and sales and everything and like make the context and then send them to me. So we did, we opened up the company in 2015 and we've just kind of taken it from there. So I straddled my time between my business coaching and running these polar expeditions with the guys. And so that's been a really it's, there's never a dull moment. Let's put it that way. Did you mention before that there's a podcast for the polar expedition company? Yeah. It's called Antarctic stories. Yeah. And Arctic stories. Yeah. It's really fun. We get, I get to interview people from it's it's actually a play on word. So it's ant and then capital a Arctic. So it's like Antarctic and the Arctic, you know? Okay . Gotcha. So I interview people who are alike , people who live in Antarctica, people who have like skied across Antarctica all by themselves. I interview people who have like done crazy things up in the Arctic. And like I'm about, we have season two coming up soon and I'm like next week I'm interviewing a polar diver diving in the polar regions is so cool. It's just like another world, you know? So I get to talk to these really, really interesting people. I, last week I interviewed the guy who was like one of the main , um , logistics coordinators for the movie happy feet. Yeah. That's really cool. Yeah. It's really, really neat. So it's a lot of fun and it's all just through our connections and our network because between me and my husband and his brother, which is know so many people in the polar world, so I just get to talk to them and have a lot of fun kind of like how you're doing with Heather's . Yeah. That's so excellent. Wow . That's just another really cool concept for a podcast. You just get to hear all these cool stories about people doing amazing things. Yeah. And I mean, that's exactly why I decided to start it. Right. I think when you start a podcast for anyone who is thinking of starting a podcast is listening to this. If you're starting a podcast, just cause you think you should have one or because it makes business sense, it's not going to , it's probably not going to have staying power. The most important thing that you can do is start a podcast because you're really interested in it. Like you're really excited. Like you're excited to talk to Heathers . I'm super excited to talk to people who live and work and adventure in the polar regions know like it'll never get old. Yeah. And so it never really feels like a chore because it's like, I don't know. It's like a bonus, you know ? Exactly . I get to talk to you this week. This is so cool. Is there a website for your business coaching business? Yeah, it's just my name. So Heather torkleson.com. Um, yeah, you can find all that information about me and my book there. And then if anyone's interested, my company polar expedition company has twin tracks, expeditions.com. Twin tracks expeditions. Yup . Dot com. Cool. Yeah. We'll share all that info in the show notes and on the website. And I can't wait to check all of that out. Amazing. I know I've , I've looked at some of your stuff like your social media, but now I'm like, I have this list along with runny ashy cheese that I have to research, but I can't wait to go listen to the other podcast and check out the book. This has been a cool conversation. Yeah. It's been super fun. And I was like, I've never been interviewed for my name before. So that's, you know , to be honest, like I kind of hated my name for a long time when I was younger. I don't, I don't know why, like I didn't have a particular reason. I just thought it was really lame. And then I grew up and I was like, Oh, there's a really nice name. Yeah. It's cool. It's cool to be Heather again. We're bringing the popularity back. Yeah. That was really cool. And I feel like the Heathers that I know anyways, they're all generally speaking from a certain time. I don't know any older. Heather's like more than 10 years than me. And I don't know any others that are more than 10 years younger than me. Something about like, there's some kind of kindred feeling about the other Heathers that I know. Cause I'm like, Oh yeah, we're all kind of from the same time range. You're all part of the way . It's like the send a fax. Right. Awesome. One thing we are well, I'm trying to do on the show now is an opening, a fortune cookie. Cool. On some of the episodes and we just started doing this the other day. So I'm going to , I'm going to open your fortune here and see what we've got. Let's see , here we go. It says it is difficult to catch a black cat in a dark room, especially when it's not there. Oh gosh. That's the deepest fortune I've ever heard from like cookies, thoughts, thoughts on that. It's difficult to catch a black cat in a dark room, especially when it's not there. Good grief to me that kind of signifies like all the, as a friend of mine says all the head trash, you know, this garbage that you make up and then you kind of obsess over and you try to find a way to have control over it. But it's actually not real. It's just a story you're telling yourself. Yeah. That's a great way to analyze that. Good job. That was, that was quick. That was I'm like, Hmm. Got to wrap my head around that one, but know that. Yeah. Something that's not there. All right . So it's a fortune for the books. Anything else you would like to talk about? Discuss, promote, share? I think the only thing that I would want to share or say or discuss a little bit is just this idea that like, you know, this weird, weird time that we're living in , um, with the pandemic and everything feeling really uncertain, especially, I mean, I'm Canadian. I live in Sweden. So both here where I live and also my home country, we're dealing with the pandemic. Sure. But we're not dealing with the kind of political strife that some of my friends in the U S are and in other countries as well. And I, I would just say that, you know, every time that there's a big shift, the way that we're experiencing now, it's also a time of like real sort of fertilization. Right. We shake out all of the garbage and the shit and we have a chance to sort of like grow new and do things differently. And so that's something I've been thinking about a lot. And it's something that I talk about in my book a lot, just in terms of like, you know, let's not get caught up in our old version of ourselves or the stories that we've been telling ourselves up until when we woke up this morning, we have this chance to kind of think of things, you know, a new and, and I love as much as some people really like to stay safe, I guess, even though who can really stay safe. So some people like the idea of staying in a safe zone in the comfort zone. Yeah . I really love the idea of evolution and reinvention , you know , um, for me, that's the safe space because I know that I'll always be resilient in the face of change that I won't be paralyzed when something happens unexpectedly. Like I know that I can hit the ground running and that's , that's a major mindset shift. And so I, I , um , I can talk about this until the cows come home. But I think for anyone who's listening, who's feeling like a little bit disheartened or a little bit discombobulated because of what's happening in the world right now. Like take heart because there's something really exciting beyond this. And if you step into that ability to like, let go of what feels safe and step into change, you're going to be fine. Like we're , we all land on our feet in the end, you know, that's a great message. Great message. I feel like it's related to the black cat and the dark room. Yeah. Yeah. It totally is. Oh, you're a fortune cookie fertilized in my mind, Heather. Right. This is the magic of the, Hey Heather podcast. I love it, man. Yeah, I know . That's a great message. And I think that's something that everybody really needs to hear. I would definitely recommend that they check out your book and your website. Cause it sounds like, you know what you're talking about, I'm I am right there on the same level with you. Like we all have everything that we need and all the answers inside of us, but we just need to, you know, tap into our mindset and, and just realize how powerful we are. Yeah. It'll be fine. It'll be fine. Yeah. It'll be fine. It won't be fine. And then it'll be fine. You know, like that's kind of how things go. There's ups and there's downs and whatever. And you know, if any, anyone who's listening, if you want to get a taste of the kind of things that I talk about , um, especially this kind of mindset stuff, they can actually go to Heather torkleson.com/no plan B, cause that's the name of my book. Um, and you can get the first chapter for free. So there's no like expectation to find nice or anything. But I have found that even just the first chapter, I keep getting emails from people and they're like, Oh my God, like this woman emailed me the other day. And she said, you had me in tears. And so there's something like resonant. I think there's something in the messaging that's really helpful for people these days. So yeah. Got it. Yeah. Everybody check that out. I know I will. Well, thanks so much for your time, Heather, as always great talking to you. We'll definitely have to have you on for a part two at some point. Oh, that would be super fun. I would love it. And I totally think we should do the 12 Heather's in the Arctic trip sometime. Yes, let's do it. Oh man. Yeah. We've got to get some details and some planning going around that I would love to do that. That would be amazing. Thank you so much for having me on the show. It's been super fun. Yeah, absolutely. Anytime let's keep in touch and I'll talk to you again soon. Okay. Sounds good. All right . Thanks. Bye. Bye. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed our show, please subscribe. You can also sign up to receive updates and other podcasts news on our website, the Hey Heather podcasts.com or follow us on Instagram at the Hey Heather podcast .
Speaker 4I knew a few Heather's now I know a lot of Heather's . Let's get to know one more day.